Yeah, I agree. Its not always that deep. Sometimes its just enticing and you feel like adding a lil spice to your life. But yeah, I think we may have beaten and dragged this one thru the streets. lol

Getting back to Mica's question for today:


Are men inclined to cheat because "they can"? Are women inclined to cheat because "they won't get caught?" Or are all cheaters motivated by the same selfishness and insecurities - regardless of gender?

Men and Women are capable of cheating for the same exact reasons.

Not only is it sometimes very simple. I further challenge ppl to consider that the motivations are not always negative internal conflicts while, the effects on the partner may be hurtful. I challenge that there is an appropriateness for selfishness in certain scenarios both from the male and female perspectives.

Miss Lindsey (I'm so so sorry-pleeeeease forgive me) that's Lindsey with an e-y not an a-y, Make no mistake!!---weigh in here please.... Anyone else or have we beaten this horse to death???

Oh and D., i'm not saying you're wrong, I just think that there could possibly be this other side....that there could be a deeper reason.

It's Lindsey.

Earlier, my point was to simply say that most of our actions are not merely actions in of themselves. There are reasons behind why we do certain things. In addition, there are actions that have no real reasons behind them either. I brought up psychotherapy, etc. to enforce the idea that there is an entire discipline dedicated to helping people deal with issues from deep within. These same issues are at times, reasons for certain actions.

I wholeheartedly agree that things can be quite simple if we allow them to be. But as complex as some of us are, at times, the complexities arrive before the simplicity and vice versa. While we can allow things to be simple - this doesn't mean that they are necessarily simple. We can see them as simple, digest them as simple, but they can also be as complex as ever. We have chosen to not focus and/or see the complexities. So, your friend was perhaps thinking that one of her reasons for cheating was simply because she liked nice things, etc. This is ok for her to think so. Frankly, it's her perogative. However, this doesn't mean that the entire situation: cheating, reasons for cheating is not complex. She is just viewing the situation and her actions in a very simple way.

Lastly, never did I state or imply that the reasons men and women cheat is always deep. Again, I plainly think that at times, there are profound reasons behind why we do certain things. I believe your friend with the LV dates is an example where there could be a great chance that it is not simply because she likes nice things is why she decided to cheat, and then cheat with someone with deep pockets, etc.

Folks, I honestly did not mean to write this much. The thoughts (that I hope aren't too convoluted) are just flowing today.

Lindsay--I'm confused why we need a Psychotherapist here....?
I'll tell you this for free. Things can be quite simple if we allow them to be.

Why men and women cheat is not always deep. We assume for a woman it's more emotional. It's simply not true.

Here is something deep: a whore with the audacity to befriend the woman who's man she is screwing.

Now this deserves a trip to the psychotherapists!

Hmmm, I have a few questions to expand this whole cheating issue to different KINDS of cheating...

1. Ladies, I've always been curious about this whole concept of emotional cheating a'la Alicia Key's "Girlfriend." Basically I have a lot of close female friends that I share certain things with and that's become a problem with some women I've dated.
2. If there was just a kiss or vice versa (sex with no kissing or foreplay), which disturbs you more or are they just equal cuz "cheatin' is cheatin'"

Ahh, redemption.

To my previous question. You're in a new relationship thick as thieves (anyone else catch the real housewives of nj promo?) and decide to open yourself up to your new lady friend making her aware that in the past you did cheat, but were never caught.

How do you propose she process this information? Being honest is great, what the other person does with your honesty is speculative.

Should she flat out feel comfortable that because you are up front with her, you would never cheat on her. Or - should she think this indicative of your personality and raise suspicion if you are "running late," "working late," or "your coworker just wears really strong perfume?"

Having been told the truth about my partners past indescretions in previous relationships. I can't help but to have my radar on for signs that i'm the next one up on the hot seat of "Who Wants to Date a Philanderer"

D Lo,

You wrote: "This was her reason. Does it have to be deeper?"

I do think the reasons for her reason are quite deep. If that wasn't the case, then there would be no use for psychologist, psychotherapists, social workers (lol), and lobotomies would have never came about. My point is: most (so this is 51%) of our actions are not simply actions. For many of them, we can find more profound and intense reasons why we do some of the things we do. And, when we visit psychologists or psychotherapists, etc., the point is to dig deeper and deeper to finally figure out why we've made certain decisions.

Melissa -

By tempting situations I mean that there are times you will come across someone you are attracted to while being in a relationship and having the will and the presence of mind of staying away from doing and saying something that will disrespect the relationship that you are in.

You are right in saying that if one has the will not to cheat a woman can be stretched out there presenting themselves to you and the dude will not do it. But that same dude will not allow that woman to just stay there. He will also remove himself from that situation.. That is all I am saying.

So to say that if someone can be tempted, "then there is a glimmer of cheaters past still haunting you" I don't think is a fair statement. To say that is to say that there are people out there that are above being tempted and are squeaky clean. Which I don't think is probable. People are tempted to do things everyday, but it is the choice that they make at that point of temptation is what is key.

By no means in my admission of my past cheating am I proud of doing it. The conversation was aimed at people who have cheated and understanding the reasons why it was done. Like I said in my previous email, I have cheated and I wasn't caught but realized karma is a bitch because I was cheated on and learned my lessons from that, accepted my responsibility of the situation that I created for that to happen then chose to make the change in how I approach relationships.

So when I am in a relationship, I make sure I do all things possible not to let external things interfere with my relationship and conduct myself in a manner that is respectful of the relationship whether the lady is with me or not.

Okay - my response to "does it have to be deeper?" is..... if the material surprises turned on your friend, who's to say the next mean strokin' baller can't come around and turn her out again?

I think that all women and men should always watch their backs. Don't be so naive and think that your man or woman would never ever cheat on your.I mean there are people who have been together for decades who still cheat on each other. If something seems a bit shady, or makes you feel uncomfortable there is probably a reason for that. A random call at 3am in the morning (that's not from his mama or sister) while you two are in bed doing what you do is pretty suspect... At the same time, don't be paranoid and turn into Nancy Drew with a blue light scaling walls or turn into Captain Krunch. I just felt like Captain Krunch. lol. I didn't want to leave the guys out.

Per Mel's request to liven the convo:

People cheat apparently for many reasons. This friend of mine is also a reformed cheater. She once told me there's nothing like a Louis Vuitton lunch date, a 5 star hotel, a 5 star restaurant, club hopping as an aphrodisiac or a trip to his timeshare and of course...something creative on a king sized mattress. This was her reason. Does it have to be deeper? She used to have a serious buddy with a mean one and a deep pocket. She showed him a lot of new things and he was in love. She had a lot of fun. He was not serious enough,a man child, in the end and she dumped him. She had really great guy and they were both getting serious after a dry spell in their relationship. She says maybe her buddy will be her second husband. Maybe not.

My friend would like to remain anonymous...

Lindsey, all of your points are completely valid and duly noted. It was not my intention by any stretch of the imagination to EXCUSE any man for cheating. I should have communicated my thoughts better so please allow me to do so. You are right to believe that pointing out the "primal urge" that men feel implies that its some sort of incurable biological disposition that makes every man want to cheat. So let me pour a cold bucket of water on that fire right out the gate. I was simply playing devil's advocate and trying to explain the thought process of the typical male cheater that I've known. Now I see why Melissa warned that we should all speak from personal experience so I'll give you mine...

When I cheated I was completely insecure and curious about the extent of my sexual abilities. I was what you would call a late bloomer and hadn't had many partners before getting into the relationship and was worried that if I settled down too soon, I might carry that "what if" curiosity with me forever. I had a great woman in my life but simply wasn't mature nor honest enough with myself, nor her, to give her the respect that she deserved and just admit that I wasn't ready for a relationship. So yes I was selfish, just like every other cheater and I paid dearly for it because I haven't met too many other women like her since...

Again, sticking to personal experience, I have grown tremendously because of that situation. I've learned to be completely transparent in all of my personal relationships and at times honest to a fault. Something that a few folks on this thread that know me can attest to. So I'm not saying that a cheating man is unsalvageable because I'm living proof that we are. Or at least I'd like to believe that I've made a change for the better. I can say that I've made a clear decision in my life that I'd MUCH rather tell the painful truth and be lonely for the rest of my life than settle and live a lie. When I'm ready to commit I will and I'll make sure that I'm with a woman that I can communicate with openly if I ever feel like I'm questioning my commitment to her.

Lastly, for the whole thing about being exclusive if you're physical, your argument hinged on the notion that I believe that all men are slaves to that primal urge we feel at times. Hopefully I clarified that a bit for you earlier. If not, I'll say it again. That primal urge is simply attraction. Both men and women feel it. Its just that some men/people let that deceptively insatiable attraction get the best of them, and act without fully considering their circumstances. Having only committed one "crime of passion." I can honestly say that I was just caught up in the moment. But to the point about exclusivity, it was mostly a rhetorical point imploring cheaters to at least be honest with their lover after making that mistake.

Again, all of your points were duly noted and enlightening. I just gotta watch what I say, yall ladies are on point and ain't havin' it. lol

I been sitting soaking this all in....I have been cheated on and the cheater.

My ex thought the grass was greener on the other side and came back pleading... it was too late. Trust was gone...however, I learned an invaluable lesson..don't put anything passed a person.

I on the other hand cheated because I was bored and feeling wreckless. I just didn't care about anyone but myself. I was always looked as quiet and innocent, so no one every suspected. During that time, I learned a lot about myself, what I liked and disliked. Its not always necessarily that deep or that you have some dysfunction in your life. Sometimes its curiosity, unhappiness or boredom.

I don't think either sex is more inclined. We just hear more about men doing it more than women.

This topic is a tough one if we are being honest...Has every woman on this post been squeaky clean?

If so I feel sort of alone on a limb here. My name is D and I'm a reformed cheater...

As a young woman I cheated on my way out of a relationship. At the time I saw something I liked. I couldn't pass it up. I was selfish and it was fun.

I married him.

P.S. Mel I'm a lady, that's my limit.

To Catch a Cheater?... Is it worth it to get Chris Hansen on that *** or let the cards fall as they may?

Maybe you suspect it, maybe you don't. Checked e-mails, night time checks of phone log while he/she sleeps safe and sound, GPS on the underside of the car....

Does this make one insecure or simply protectin' yo' neck?

That's it, I'm goin in.

Good theory bout the insecurity (if it helps us sleep at night)...or maybe men just like vagina. And lot's of it. I personally think it's all soft and pink inside (my most recent bedfellow told me I was wrong, while hysterical and looking dumb struck that i'd just said that. He now knows I'm an asshole and say things like that often.) To be fair, I'm also not well versed in the subtle nuances of the 'nani' (good one, Mel! LMAO) beyond the scope of my own little happy place. I mean...is it like the difference between Absolut, Goose, and let's say Popov? All vodka, all get u right, but yet still, you'd rather have the top shelf versus the glorified rubbing alcohol? I think most would go for quality, but in the end...if a man wants a drink...he'll take it if it's sitting there. Not much more thinking involved than that. So long as they know we all have the same access, desires, and propensities...we're all good. Whether all of us give in to the temptation to drink from another bottle is a different story...

...And now I've exposed myself as both a penis enthusiast and alcoholic. Awesome.

Great Success!

JB

Shawn,
Your arguement implies that, primarily, the motivation for men to cheat is biological. In addition, that in many instances, no matter what a woman can do, a man will step out on her. Citations in point:

.....and are still able to satisfy that primal urge to manhandle each and every last figure 8 that passes you by, then you'd almost feel like a fool NOT to do it.
The reason that a man cheats is mostly not an indictment on you, nor the love we have for you.

Your girl can be doing everything she could possibly do to please you and logically he should be completely satisfied right where he's at. But Jay said it best and in the simplest terms, we "like new coochie".

The strongest emotion in human nature is curiosity. I'll we'll damn sure take that curiosity and go kill some kitty.

Shawn, how, just how can you then say "So I suggest that you make it clear that if you're dating and its physical, you guys are exclusive and if anything changes, you should demand his honesty." This makes absolutely no sense. If you maintain that this is how men are built, biologically made, then surely, whether or not a woman makes it clear that you are dating makes absolutely no difference. It's not as if she is altering these biological patterns and trends that you speak of.

To be frank, you should have cited immaturity, lack of confidence, inability to love, etc. as reasons why a grown man will feel like a fool if he can't get at the next "figure 8" that walks by. If he was truly a man and secure in himself - a beautiful woman who walks by coudln't dare threaten his security and allow him for a minute to think of himself as a fool. He would just say "wow, she's beautiful" and leave it at that.

And the ubiquitous primal urge. Just say that men are not ready or cannot love someone. Admit that they're selfish. It's like the man who's serving 25 years to life for murdering three adults and one child. "But killing is a part of life. It's part of the social order of things". No, actually, prisonerman, you're crazy. Or what the IMF or World Bank responds when people are perplexed at the maintained gaps among the rich and the poor. "Well some countries willl just naturally be at the very bottom. This just how it is. It's the nature of it all". No, actually IMF & World Bank - you all are simply criminals.

My point is: Yes, men cheat because they can, etc. etc. But don't excuse it or even try to pass it off as something biological, somehow natural, etc. etc. Be honest with yourself. There are very real reasons (that can be fixed) as to why men cheat. Once people are honest with themselves and acknowledge who they are as people - whether they are selfish, too arrogrant, mean, too nice, etc.- can they really have the ability to honestly put their cards out on the table while dating. Should that Ace of Hearts not be for you, then you can gently and delicately, turn that card over. If the next card still isn't for you, then you can simply walk away from the table, unscathed, and with dignity, self-love and a continued hope of finding the One.

After reading Mica's post, I couldn't help but think that your friend needs a reality check. Karma will catch up to him one day because he will meet a woman who will beat him at his own game. Both men and women cheat because they are selfish and want to have their cake and eat it. It has less to do with “the way women are built” or “a man’s nature” and more to do with a person who is not satisfied with what they have but is a coward by not discussing this dissatisfaction with their partner. Let me put this out there. This day and age, there are women who are equally or even more aggressive and will do whatever it takes to get whatever they want. This stereotypical belief that most women are less prone to act on their own sexual fantasies and desires is tired and played out. There are girls who have “gone wild”and wilder…



Nonetheless, I think that most people (with common sense) would rather be told the truth about the turbulent state of the relationship than to find out later that their partner has been creeping on them. It is this feeling of deceit and betrayal that makes cheating so hurtful. Cheaters are cowards who come in all genders, sizes, shapes and colors. I know some females who secretly run around with different men even though they have a man because it makes them feel powerful. It is definitely not a gender thing! If saying that helps your ego, so be it. Most people cheat because they are insecure and crave something whether it is the desire for sexual dominance or the approval of another person who is not their partner to boost their self esteem.

What are tempting situations though?

If you have the will not to cheat, Megan Goode can be stretched across your bed in her infamous latex leggings and your thought of your intimate will always outweigh the so called temptation that surrounds you.

If you can be tempted, then there is a glimmer of cheaters past still haunting you.

In my oh so humble opinion

Jason:

I will admit to cheating in the past and the motivations behind it for me have been the following:

1- Needs not being met in the current relationship
2- Not mature enough to address the issues in the relationship at the time
3- Placing myself around tempting situations
4- Simply because I could and being greedy

Overall, I think men and women cheat for the same reasons. They may like being in a relationship and love the person they are with, however, they may not be emotionally equipped at times or mature enough to deal with completely honoring the relationship when things aren't always at its best.

I do not agree with the "It's in a man's nature to cheat" arguement that is commonly used. I am not genetically predisposed to being polyamorous. It is a choice that is made based on the person's situation and the options they feel are available for them to chose from at the time. That mentality allows for that double standard and for men to have that knee jerk reaction when they find out they have been cheated on by their girl.

Although I have cheated, I have never been caught. Realizing that Karma is a bitch and made the choice that I would date with the serious intentions of finding my wife I knew that behavoir was no longer acceptible and have done my best to avoid temptations and have worked on being as transparent as possible and being able to articulate the issues that I am having in the relationship and work on those as a couple.

Melissa:

Cheating Cheating Cheating..

The one thing to change me from big butt and a smile to get buck down.

The insecure man child cheats when they lack confidence in their swag. Point, Blank, Period.
Seeking validation of their manhood it takes the showering graces of a desperate woman (in the case that they know they are playing second fiddle) to make this man child feel that his stick is the biggest in the woods.

An escapist, this man child is nothing short of Whodini when it comes to dealing with real life sh*t, and therefore runs to the arms of the illusion where they don't have to face reality. Why come home to a home cooked meal, when you can escape taking out the trash, and discussing finances by laying up in the 'nani of a woman who only wants attention.

to be continued.

Lindsey:

Ok, so there are two very different topics that have been brought up:
-how men and women cheat
-why and what motivates men and women to cheat

My response to the second topic:
All cheaters, regardless of gender are essentially motivated to cheat for many reasons including, insecurities, selfishness, and lack of X,Y & Z in their relationship. While it was very easy to see a trend among the aforementioned women who cheated - that they thought they could get away with it - this doesn't mean that this was necessarily the cause - that women are inclined to cheat because they could get away with it. Perhaps they were unhappy/abused/neglected, started to cheat and then realized they could easily continue because no one was paying attention or could envision them cheating, etc. etc. What came first was the neglect, lack of love, etc. etc. I do think though, there are women who fit into the category of "I cheat b/c I know I won't get caught". However, if one were to look closely enough at the relationship from jump - the lack of seriousness, insecurity, etc. would be written all over the wall. I am assuming we are talking about fairly healthy and stable relationships where sudddenly one partner decides to step out...and it's not for coffee.

As for men, the same arguement stands. While the aforementioned male friend later explained that he continued to cheat because he could, I do think his boredom, etc. etc. preceeds his decisions to cheat. However, my arguement is undermined (and will change) if he'll say he cheated from the beginning. When men say it is in their nature to cheat, it allows them to not admit the mushy, feminine stuff- that essentially- in the end they want to be loved, wanted, appreciated, adored, etc. etc. By saying- "it's what men do" - it reinforces their masculinity - which is a last attempt to salvage themselves - esp. if they are unhappy, feel unappreciated, etc.etc.

I do think we can always find populations that fit into every category. However, what I am saying fits into that previously stable relationship that is suddnely knocked over.

I think there are a myriad of reasons why people cheat. I think your homie was on point when he said that he simply cheats because he can. I just personally don't see the need to be in a relationship if you know that all you want is something physical out of a woman at that point in your life. But I do understand why some dudes take the cake and eat it too approach. Just like he said, it fits into that same "why not" category. If you can get the emotional support (and yeah we men like/need that shit too, just not as much as yall. lol) that you get in a relationship and are still able to satisfy that primal urge to manhandle each and every last figure 8 that passes you by, then you'd almost feel like a fool NOT to do it. And because most of us foolishly believe that our woman will just "faithfully" stick by us no matter what, alot of dudes see cheating as a no brainer. Let me make this clear tho. The reason that a man cheats is mostly not an indictment on you, nor the love we have for you. We just reaaaally have a problem with what I call sexual gluttony. Your girl can be doing everything she could possibly do to please you and logically he should be completely satisfied right where he's at. But Jay said it best and in the simplest terms, we "like new coochie". The challenge of mastering a new woman's body is often one that's too tempting to pass up.

I know that sounds disheartening, especially given the fact that you can be doing everything right and he may still step out on you. But honestly, I think that there are a great deal of mature men out there who may have once been caught doing dirt and realize that that grass on the other side of the fence ain't worth the work you put into the perfectly manicured green pastures in which they currently stand. I've played myself and made the mistake and can honestly say that I'm a better man FOR having cheated and gotten caught. I wish there was something I could say to inspire confidence in yall beyond that but true story is if a man is gonna cheat, he's gonna cheat. Same goes for you women out there who crave that title of "girlfriend" thinking that there's some kinda security that comes along with the word. Once a lot of women get that title they expect things to change and we men know it. All of a sudden that once free flowing, natural vibe becomes a set of rules that you must adhere to in order to keep your woman happy. So an unfortunate side effect of having that title is that you have now made the allure of cheating that much greater. Now the idea of stepping out on you is that much more enticing because its something he's not SUPPOSED to be doing. Its kinda like telling kids not to smoke and do drugs or anything taboo for that matter. The strongest emotion in human nature is curiosity. I'll we'll damn sure take that curiosity and go kill some kitty. So I suggest that you make it clear that if you're dating and its physical, you guys are exclusive and if anything changes, you should demand his honesty. Especially with all these diseases out here. But beyond that, I'd say to let a man express his desire to commit to you. That way you know its sincere and that he's ready, which I'd hope would make him less likely to cheat on you...